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Episode 01 – Interview with Nancy Tuchman on the Y on Earth Community Podcast – Stewardship & Sustainability Series.
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Nancy Tuchman – Loyola University – Chicago
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(Automatically generated transcript for search engine optimization and reference purposes – grammatical and spelling errors may exist.)
We’re here with the YonEarth Thought and Action Leadership Series, and it is my pleasure
to introduce our guest, Nancy Tuchman, who joins us from Loyola University in Chicago.
And Nancy is the founding director of the Institute of Environmental Sustainability there,
and has also been playing a leading role in the thinking and the implementation connected
to Pope Francis LaDouteau’s seawork around stewardship and sustainability.
And Nancy, it’s such a pleasure to have this opportunity to chat with you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Aaron. Nice to be here.
Great. Well, and I thought we might frame our conversation today by first talking about
Jesuit universities, and you know, what makes them a bit different from some of the other
universities out there. Obviously, there are a good number of Jesuit universities here in the
United States, as well as internationally. And would you speak to that a bit just to give folks
an idea of what we’re talking about?
Sure, absolutely. In US, we have 28 different Jesuit colleges and universities. It’s a pretty good sized network, but internationally, we have
over 200 Jesuit colleges and universities. So it really ends up being the largest network
of universities on the planet. Well, and we know we know some of them are pretty well known as
being pretty good at basketball, right? School like Zaga, Georgetown, of course, Loyola.
That’s right. That’s right. And these are also some of the leading institutions when it comes to
research and other social sciences work that’s being done around these big complex challenges we face in terms of sustainability. Yes. I think most universities are really working with these
big problems, but the Jesuit universities are unique in that their entire mission is about
justice, about social justice, and how do we affect change that can raise people out of poverty
and really impact people who are living at the margins? So with that kind of a focus,
the environment is really a part of that because, of course, as we deplete our environment,
it really directly impacts the people at the margins and people who are poor before it impacts
anyone else. So the Jesuits have really embraced environmental justice as being a big part of their mission. It’s so important. I was recently talking with our mutual friend, Father Mark Bosco,
who’s a Jesuit, and was actually one of the teachers I had way back in high school.
And he was sharing with me that he’s actually going to be working with some Syrian refugees
later this year. And that’s one of the areas, the groups of people in geographic areas that’s
making the news quite a lot lately, and some of that news being so very sad. And I think one of the things that a lot of my friends, anyway, don’t necessarily realize is a lot of what appears to be simply political or economic instability or disruption around the world. Also,
often has very deep environmental or ecological causes at play. And now we know that there are a great number of refugees all around the world. So great a number, a number we haven’t seen since World War II. And so many of these folks are being dislocated, displaced, having their lives literally upheaved by some of the environmental tragedies that we’re dealing with right now. Absolutely. And serious, such a good example, because we do think about it as a political war. But it was really induced by an extremely long period of drought, which was a result of global climate change. And so with this long, long period of extended dryness in Syria, people that lived on the land could no longer feed themselves and their childrens. And so they all began to move into the cities. And it was that conflict of, you know, all these people migrating into the cities all at once that started the Syrian war. And those kinds of things caused refugees as you
as you described. And all over the world, this is happening with extended floods and droughts
and natural disasters that are happening more frequently and more intensively because of climate change. Absolutely. Yeah. What do you, what do you find in that Jesuit universities are doing that might be a bit different from some of the other secular universities around the country or around the world? Well, first of all, Jesuit universities don’t deny climate change. And so it’s really easy to to start pulling that into the curriculum because we all believe it’s a very important thing for us to be raising awareness, you know, with our students and really teaching them about the impacts of things like climate change and the loss of biodiversity and some of the other major threats to the planet. So I would say what Jesuit universities are doing is they’re working to integrate lessons of environmental sustainability into the curriculum and across the curriculum. So that every student that goes through these universities has a certain level of literacy around environmental issues, you know, no matter what their major is, they still understand
environmental issues and how that impacts them and how it impacts humanity. So I would say that
Jesuit universities are doing quite a bit in terms of teaching and also integrating into
this type of issue into their research. And maybe another unique thing about the Jesuit
universities is that, you know, the Jesuits work through, primarily through education, both higher
education and secondary education. I mentioned earlier that there are about 200 Jesuit universities
around the planet, but there are 2,500 Jesuit high schools. So it’s really an enormous
body of, you know, education, it’s such a big education platform that we can really affect
change with our students. So it’s not only the teaching that we’re doing and the research that
we’re doing, but it’s the advocacy and the connection to communities.
Absolutely. You know, we were recently you and I were both at the climate summit hosted by St. Louis
University, which of course is also a Jesuit school. And I’ve been to several climate-related
sustainability-related conferences over the years as I know you have as well. And one of the
what’s that? We see each other there. Yeah, exactly. And one of the things that really strikes me
as being different about the tone, the tenor, the dialogue, the exchange that goes on at some
of the Jesuit settings is that it’s okay to talk a bit more about our spiritual relationships
with Earth, with place, with one another. It’s not only okay, it’s encouraged that we are, yes,
focusing on data, on mind, on important and complex problems from a technical perspective,
but we are also really focusing on our heart and our passion for one another and for our living
planet and that that is increasingly defining, I would say, the narrative and the discussions
that are occurring within the Jesuit context, which I happen to believe is really important
and actually great for folks to be able to experience.
Yeah, you know, I love that about the Jesuits that they, they aren’t
bashful to talk about human spirituality and what an important role that has in the decisions
that we make, political, social, environmental decisions. If you’re disconnected from
your own heart and your own spirituality, then you tend to make, you know, decisions only out
of your frontal cortex and it doesn’t always do the best for humanity or for the common good.
I think that’s one thing I love about the Jesuit education is they really talk about, you know,
the whole person, how do we educate the whole person, not just their intellect, so not just
teaching facts and teaching, you know, figures, but really engaging the mind, the heart and the body
in this whole person kind of an education. It really makes for a fun way to educate, a rich way
to educate and I think it’s a terrific way for students to learn to really be able to engage
their whole selves into these issues. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know you and I have talked
together about how so much of what we’re working on is a matter of holistic
understanding and action from our own lives to our service and roles in our communities
and around the world and I totally agree that it seems the context that is set within Jesuit
education allows us to really approach that in a 360 degree kind of way that seems to work well.
Yeah. Well, we know that there’s incredible thought leadership now occurring throughout the world
with the leadership of Pope Francis, Laudato C, care of our common home. Many really exciting
and laudable examples in Jesuit universities and high schools. I would say all around the
all around the country, all around the world, but I’d love to take a few minutes to focus on
the things you all are doing at Loyola Chicago because I’ve had the opportunity to visit a
couple times this past year and it has really struck me that the sustainability efforts and
discussions are not sidebars at Loyola Chicago. They are really front and center even in terms of
the layout of the campus and some of the special buildings and projects you all have going on.
So maybe you could share with us about that. Well, thanks for the opportunity. It’s always fun to
talk about the progress that we’ve made at Loyola has sort of been in two avenues. One is really
greening our campus so that our buildings are more sustainable. They’re more energy efficient
so that we’re using less water and conserving water and and our storm water doesn’t go right down
the sewer but actually is retained in the soils. We’ve done a lot with putting on green roofs
in our buildings. We’ve replaced a lot of old very inefficient buildings with new lead certified
buildings so this process of sort of greening our campus has taken us. It’s been about a 15-year
journey and it’s really been exciting because every year we do more than we did in the previous year
and yet we have really done a terrific job on our main campus in Chicago and we have a second
campus in Chicago that’s called our Water Tower campus that’s right down in the loop and both of
those have really become much more green. In fact, this main campus that you’ve visited our
Institute of Environmental Sustainability, we’ve been able to decrease our environmental footprint by
over 50% over these past 15 years and that’s enormous. You know, that’s better than any other
school that I know of. Certainly the best in the Midwest and we’re leading with the Jesuit
universities as well. So that’s been an inspiration to our students but also to our faculty staff
and administration. What can we do next? What about our landscaping? What about our food system
and our waste of course and our consumption? So all these different buckets of sustainability
have been areas where people have really gotten involved in figuring out how we can do better.
So that’s exciting because it helps to affect change in your own life and your own behavior
and the way that you make choices about what you buy and the ways that you produce. So that’s one
of the directions that we have really been pursuing on this campus but then of course the other one
is our main line of business which is education and we have been very intentional about integrating
sustainability and environmental degradation awareness into our curriculum. Every student at the
university has to take a certain number of credits that we call our core, our university core
curriculum and the introductory science course that every student has to take is a course that
talks about these issues of the environment through a lens of science and so they learn about
climate change and they learn about the acidification of the ocean and the nitrogen pollution problem
and the loss of biodiversity etc. So I feel like that one thing probably has the biggest impact on
our campus in terms of raising awareness the fact that every student regardless of their major
has to take this core foundational science course which is about environmental justice and
environmental issues. Of course and then we also launched the Institute of Environmental Sustainability
in 2013 we’re five years old this year in August so that’s kind of a fun anniversary for us to
celebrate and we have developed curriculum at this point only to the undergraduates but now we’re
moving into graduate programming and it is very exciting because these are things that students
want to learn about they want to be part of the solution so they want to come and be well-educated
in their undergraduate degrees so that they can go out to the change agents and we’ve seen our
numbers of students really increase you know from when we started just five years ago we’ve
incrementally increased the number of students that are majoring with us and now we’re up to
about 350 so we’re growing and very much enjoying working with these young minds they have a lot
of energy and a lot of motivation to do good work and to do innovative work. Oh absolutely well
congratulations on the five-year anniversary and also on those numbers that’s that’s tremendous
impact that you and your colleagues are having that’s that’s wonderful. Thank you thanks very
much. Our other Jesuit universities also making similar environmental courses required regardless
of major. Yes this is something that many of the Jesuit universities are doing they’re doing
it certainly within majors but also some of them are putting it into their core curriculum as well
and I think I think that’s a really terrific way to start because it is a big impact you know on
just that one course. We also see a lot of the Jesuit universities really building their campuses
to be more green and building sustainability committees that have faculty staff and administrators
so that they really have a more integrated approach to greeting their campus. You know it’s
difficult because if you really want to make a big change on your campus you have to put a
financial investment into upgrading your buildings and your heating and cooling systems
but there are so many things that you can do in the curricula that don’t really require more
money it just requires a lot of work to change you know the way that the curricula is presently designed.
So we see people trying to you know go after those low hanging fruits when they just start their
sustainability planning on campus but then once they find success there and they see the student
interested involvement it kind of keeps them going and that’s been a really exciting trend across
the universities. So cool well it makes me think a little bit about the the work we’re doing with
the the YonEarth Community and our sort of two-pronged approach where on the one hand we are
discussing and working toward getting active around solutions for sustainability for stewardship
and then on the other hand we’re really encouraging folks from varieties of backgrounds ages
and so forth to cultivate that thriving practice in our own lives our own homes where we go to these
five themes we can count them on our hands where we’re working with soil with food and drink we’re
working with movements we’re working with connection with nature we’re working with wellbeing
practices and it’s so exciting to see with with folks this increasing level of awareness and
recognition that my goodness so many of the things we can do I can do in my own life that will
enhance my own health well-being quality of life are also well aligned with global strategies
for stewardship and sustainability and I think at a place like Loyola Chicago this is being
not only inculcated with the students in terms of curricula but is also part of the campus
experience when walking around one sees a whole lot of effort and resources that have gone
into helping connect these dots and that’s a challenge you know because we do have a big turnover
of people especially students they come in as freshmen and they kind of become socialized to the
culture the sustainability culture that we have on this campus and then they graduate and we get
new students that come in so it’s it’s constantly working with new people and and trying to
socialize them to this idea that this is how we live on our campus and this is how we live in our
personal lives as well but I imagine that YonEarth has the same kinds of challenges you know
just constantly trying to bring people into the fold and and change habits old habits die hard
it’s absolutely true we are we are very focused on habit changing and in the opportunities that
these really present us in our in our own lives that our communities and in our world more broadly
well I guess can I say something about that because I think that you’ve selected the five areas
of sustainability that you’ve selected for YonEarth are very important because people oftentimes
think you know if I make a change is it really going to matter it’s going to be like a drop in the
ocean or a you know a greatest sand on the beach but in fact it does make an enormous difference when
each individual makes a commitment to being more sustainable to consuming less and producing less
waste and to just being conscientious about the food and water and drink that we consume and where
it comes from and how far it travels so you know I’ve read a lot about this and studied a lot
about this and what keeps coming up in the data is that the one biggest impact that we can have
as individuals is to not eat meat and even if you just you know sort of reduce meat in your diet
once a day if you’re used to eating meat at all three meals and you go down to two meals a day
that’s you know that’s an enormous that’s a third of the meat that you would be otherwise consuming
but you know growing livestock has just such an enormous impact on on our landscape and that is
one really big thing that people can do you know there’s lots of others as well I mean certainly
our consumption of energy which wasn’t in your five but that’s something that kind of goes along
with health and well-being if you’re riding a bike or walking more than just always taking
taking your car for example so anyway I wanted to just pull out that those are very good
areas of sustainability that you’re focusing on yeah absolutely thank you for mentioning that
and sharing that and you know we have friends we’re working in communities really all over very
diverse communities we have friends who are devoutly vegan for for these reasons you’re
describing we we have friends who you know maybe grew up maybe Midwest kind of meat and potatoes
culture who are now beginning to think you know instead of consuming the industrial meats I’m
going to focus on some of the other regenerative grass fed beef for example which is part of that
soil building carbon sequestration process and you know we try really hard with the work we’re
doing with YonEarth not to necessarily create divisions where people are at different points
in that spectrum but to to invite folks that to say you know look wherever you are right now
what what are a few things you can do today tomorrow just like you’re suggesting perhaps
one-third less of something one-third more of something that might be beneficial where where
are those levers currently that you can start pulling in your own life that are going to actually
not only probably enhance your health your experience day-to-day but also help move this big
needle that we all share in our broader society that’s right absolutely and you know you I’m sure
that in your in your work Aaron that you you’re working with families and you probably have young
people and children as well those are the ones that are so eager to make a change and they find
it so easy to do and they oftentimes teach us adults that you know giving something up or changing
or have it really isn’t that big of a deal and that we can do it that’s absolutely right it’s so
great well let me let me ask kind of a big question as as a way of maybe wrapping up our discussion
today with all the work you’re doing and with your colleagues the amazing institution and institutions
that you’re a part of and connected to if you were to pause and think about a big hairy audacious
goal or something that we could stretch for as university campuses or even society more broadly
thinking out a number of years what comes to mind for you what what do you think Nancy is something
we could all be working toward and not necessarily that we’ll prove to one another that we’re
definitely going to make this happen but that perhaps we just might I love that thinking yeah
that’s very exciting one direction that we’re working with the the Jesuit colleges and universities
worldwide is you know they’ve got the higher ed directorate the second and direct the secondary
ed directorate but then they also have a social justice and ecology directorate and those three
groups of people working in the society of Jesus don’t always work across directorates very
well but think of the work that we could get done if the people that are conducting research in
universities could be doing research on the field sites where the social justice centers are
working with the poor and working in these areas that have had devastation from drought and flood
and hurricane damage you know from climate change if the researchers could help inform the people
that are in the social justice centers on you know sort of what’s coming or how how to respond
I think we could we can leverage one another in a very impactful way and if we think about this
you know just bringing it into our own lives in our own communities if we’re not affiliated with
universities I think working in community is a very very important thing because we tend to get so
isolated I know I have friends who come to work every day and they do their work and then they
rush home and they make dinner and they do their stuff with their family and they come back to work
and they don’t even really know their neighbors because everybody’s doing the same thing their
neighbors are also you know taking off and going to work and coming back home and it’s kind of a
rat race but the more we’re in place thinking about the soils that are in our shared you know space
in our neighborhoods we went through a process like this in my own neighborhood where I
people hated my yard because it’s filled with a lot of native plants and it also has a lot of
dandelions and it because dandelions are very good you know for for B forage honey B forage
so but anyway just talking to people and getting out there and and and pretty soon people
slowly started not using all the herbicides and pesticides in their yards anymore and you
sort of see a lot more diversity people’s lawns they’re not just perfect you know green
monocultures but actually you know they’re starting to see that all these decisions that we make
and sometimes we’ve just been sort of socialized into thinking that perfect green grass is what we
all need to have but the more diversity that people are getting in their yards it’s helped to build
the soil you know and it’s it’s helped to you know make homes for different types of birds and
insects and things so just those kinds of changes that you can make in your own community not only
help the the landscape and the soil and the water drainage and the diversity and the diversity of
insects and birds and mammals that you can support in your neighborhood but really it’s the
social part of connecting with your neighbors and and really having a fuller life that’s more
sustainable and more about community I find that really gratifying well that is so beautiful to
hear Nancy and you hadn’t shared that with me before it just brings a big smile to my face knowing
that you’re also having this kind of impact in your neighborhood and we love the dandelions
they’re they’re so important one of the early food sources for the bees as they’re waking up in
the spring and that is actually wonderful it’s you know it’s really one of the reasons we’re
deliberately growing this network of ambassadors all around the country we’re in fact now starting to
get international a little bit with that and turns out we get a lot of benefit from doing this kind
of work this kind of community building it it is actually something that enhances our quality of
life and what a joy that that’s part of the work we get to do in these times it’s right and as
we get to know our neighbors better we can share things so that not everybody has to buy a lawnmower
one lawnmower and you can have five people sharing it or you can have one ladder that all five
families can share and that kind of shared economy is so much more sustainable but it’s also just
more rich it’s just a wonderful you know way to live absolutely you know this coming weekend
Sunday afternoon we’re going to be meeting at a friend’s home building soil doing some biodynamic
soil prep and biochar activation and planting some plants getting together and enjoying some
sun tea with folks and you know it’s it’s not glamorous necessarily but it’s it’s really a lot of
fun and we’re in the process actually really starting to enhance soil activity in communities all
around that’s fabulous my son is a biodynamic farmer and beekeeper well no kidding okay well Nancy
we’re we’re gonna probably have more to talk about it sounds like and I really appreciate you
taking this time out of your busy day to wrap up I just want to say Nancy thank you I’ve been
speaking with Nancy Tuckman from University Loyola Chicago where she is the founding director of
the Institute of Environmental Sustainability and is doing so much great work in her own neighborhood
as well as all around the world through the universities and the Jesuit network and Nancy thank
you so much for being with us today thank you Aaron and keep up your great work we’ll do you
but talk to you soon okay bye bye bye
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